NEWSDonald Trump Called Mike Pence a 'Wimp' in Final Conversation Before January 6 Riots
Unearthed notes taken by Mike Pence reveal that Donald Trump insulted him during a call on January 6, 2021.
Oct. 28 2025, Published 5:26 p.m. ET
Donald Trump allegedly told his former vice president, Mike Pence, that he "would go down as a wimp" for refusing to deny the 2020 election results in favor of Joe Biden ahead of the insurrection on January 6, 2021.
The insult was revealed by author and ABC News chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl on X on Sunday, October 26, as his new book Retribution, about Trump, came out on October 28.
Donald Trump wanted Mike Pence to claim the 2020 election results were rigged against him.
Karl shared a photo of unearthed handwritten notes taken by former vice president Pence during a heated phone conversation with Trump. The call went down hours before Congress certified the 2020 election and Trump's supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol building.
Jonathan Karl's new book about Donald Trump comes out on October 28.
Mike Pence pictured during a session of Congress to certify the 2020 Electoral College results on January 6, 2021.
The notes, which were recorded in his daily planner, contain other quotes from the contentious call.
One quote, seemingly directed at Pence, reads, "If you do that, I made a big mistake 5 years ago."
Elsewhere, he jotted down, "You're not protecting our country, you're supposed to support + defend our country."
Pence also wrote, "It doesn't take courage to break the law. It takes courage to uphold the law."
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Jonathan Karl's book reveals previously unseen notes taken by former vice president Mike Pence.
Elsewhere on the page, Pence had drawn an angry face after Trump told him, "You listen to the wrong people."
According to ABC News, special counsel Jack Smith got his hands on the private notes as he was building a case against Trump, claiming that that he played a major part in instigating the riots that day. The case, however, didn't end up going to trial.
After Smith released his report on January 14, less than a week before Trump was sworn in again, Trump responded to Smith by calling him “a lamebrain prosecutor who was unable to get his case tried before the Election."
Trump shared that he would 'love' to run for president again in 2028.
This comes as the POTUS shared that he would "love" to run for president again in 2028, despite it being against the constitution.
Speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One while headed to Japan on Monday, October 27, he declared, "Am I not ruling it out? You’ll have to tell me."
"All I can tell you is that we have a great, a great group of people, which they don’t," he added, referring to Democrats.
The 79-year-old president — who has been battling rumors about health issues recently — also noted that his current Vice President, J.D. Vance, and United States Secretary of State Marco Rubio would make good options for the next Republican presidential candidate.
