Lesley Stahl Grills Ed Martin on Donald Trump's Pardons in Tense '60 Minutes' Interview

During the 60 Minutes season opener on Sunday, September 13, Lesley Stahl conducted a sharp interview with Ed Martin, former pardon attorney to President Donald Trump, challenging him on what she described as the president's "pardon economy."

Stahl highlighted that wealthy individuals are allegedly paying brokers connected to Trump up to $3 million to lobby directly for presidential pardons.

Meanwhile, those using the traditional Department of Justice application process are being left behind.

“Is that a fair system?” Stahl asked Martin.

Martin, who left his post as Trump's pardon attorney in August, firmly rejected the claim.

He stated that he had personally met with a thousand applicants over the past year and denied witnessing or hearing about a pay-for-play system.

“I reject your characterization of the system,” Martin replied. “I’ve not seen it. I’ve not heard it. I sat with a thousand people in the last year in my office, and I listened to them tell me — some of them ended up with clemency, some of them were pardoned.”

Stahl countered Martin's defense with statistics, noting that roughly 70 percent of clemencies granted during Trump's second term bypassed the Justice Department entirely. That figure jumps to 92 percent when accounting for pardons given to January 6 rioters.

To illustrate her point, Stahl cited Paul Walczak, a healthcare executive convicted of tax crimes. Walczak received a presidential pardon after his mother paid $1 million to attend a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago.

“A pardon seeker going to Mar-a-Lago and joining in a fundraising event where you had to pay money and then getting a pardon- why isn’t that a quid pro quo? Why isn’t that pay-to-play?” Stahl asked Martin.

Martin replied, “When people say, ‘It’s brokers, there’s quid pro quo,’ I’ve never seen it. I haven’t seen it, haven’t heard it.”

Stahl wasn’t having it, interjecting, “Ed! The point is, they’re going around you. And the whole point is, they’re bragging about going around you.”

“I — I just don’t, I don’t see any evidence of some magical brokers. I think people are trying to make money,” Martin stuttered, reluctantly admitting that some who have brokered Trump pardons are, indeed, “snake oil salesmen” and “swamp salesmen.”

Stahl ended her segment by reading a statement from the White House, which read, “Anyone spending money to lobby for pardons is foolishly wasting their money,” adding, “President Trump performs his constitutional duties in an ethically sound manner, and to suggest so otherwise is either ill-informed or malicious.”

The 60 Minutes veteran's hard-hitting interview defied her boss, Bari Weiss, who has been described by critics as "MAGA-curious," in a stark contrast to the interview her colleague Norah O'Donnell did on the same show with embattled Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, which critics slammed as "pathetic" and a "softball puff piece."